tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20318294.post9209482417337535469..comments2023-10-28T06:49:17.434+00:00Comments on O cuniculi! Ubi lexicon Latinum posui?: Blogday 2011: Anglican Papalism and MeWarwickensishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01310450226153796760noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20318294.post-37088305140190221342012-01-11T02:16:36.991+00:002012-01-11T02:16:36.991+00:00Great post!
But you did get me wondering ... How...Great post! <br /><br />But you did get me wondering ... How does Vat. II constitute a bigger problem as does Vat. I ? <br /><br />Gregory +Fr. Gregory Wassenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13751849568854606897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20318294.post-65041220280874061312011-12-31T14:30:29.649+00:002011-12-31T14:30:29.649+00:00You've developed to a position so close to min...You've developed to a position so close to mine that it's nearly impossible to tell the difference. As to changing one's opinions, well, I find it a sign of spiritual immaturity if one is unable to change. Since it is a given that the deep matters of God are beyond human understanding, it follows that NONE of our approximations truly do justice to the truth. We try our best, and our best has to get better or we have ceased to grow -- and what happens to a living thing that ceases to grow is that it begins to die. We are all on a difficult pilgrimage in this earthly life, always trying to find the right road, often wandering from it.<br /><br />As for re-ordination: I'm very cautious with words like "sacrilege" -- There is a difference between deliberately misusing the things of God and ignorantly making errant use of them. Intent and attitude matter more (when judging the state of a soul) than the objective facts of the case. That said, I find myself deeply troubled by the insistence on absolute ordination. Such a rite, no matter what lame explanations are intended, cannot be anything but a denial of what went before. If only Rome had been humble enough at least to offer a conditional ordination, allowing freedom of opinion as to the past. Ah, well, it isn't that way, and one more barrier is in place.<br /><br />eded pachthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02647439625284831383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20318294.post-15220632894723509862011-12-31T07:11:35.064+00:002011-12-31T07:11:35.064+00:00I agree with much of what you have to say, Warwick...I agree with much of what you have to say, Warwickensis - "what oft was thought, but ne'er so well expressed". I am personally agnostic on the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption, but there can be no objection to those who hold them as pious opinions. I do object strongly, however, to those who insist, without any clear warrant of scripture, that they must be accepted as dogmas on which one's salvation depends (in the former case posthumously turning poor St. Bernard of Clairvaux into a heretic!)<br /><br />I do not find M. de Verteuil's explanation all that helpful, Jakian Thomist. It is, typically, Romanocentric and self-serving; it presupposes that the tender sensibilities of Roman Catholics (who, after all, belong to the "One True Church") must not be in any way disquieted while Anglican concerns can be simply trampled in the mud. And Heaven forfend that the "One True Church" should be in any way inconvenienced by conditional re-ordination! It reflects the old Roman approach to ecumenical negotiation: "what's mine is mine and what's yours is negotiable."<br /><br />And for all of M. de Verteuil's red herring parsing of Roman practice, the bottom line remains that that practice is based on Pope Leo's unequivocal pronouncement in "Apostolicae Curae" in 1896, specifically paragraph 36: "Wherefore, strictly adhering, in this matter, to the decrees of the pontiffs, our predecessors, and confirming them most fully, and, as it were, renewing them by our authority, of our own initiative and certain knowledge, we pronounce and declare that ordinations carried out according to the Anglican rite have been, and are, absolutely null and utterly void." If it's a choice between Pope Leo's obvious intent and the Clintonesque qualification, "It depends on what you mean by "have been and are"", I'll take Pope Leo's candour any day, however much I disagree with his conclusion.<br /><br />In Christ,<br /><br />Colin ChattanColin Chattanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04538207074070761961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20318294.post-83912727462876024752011-12-29T22:43:02.938+00:002011-12-29T22:43:02.938+00:00Hi Warwickensis,
I must admit that I really do en...Hi Warwickensis,<br /><br />I must admit that I really do enjoy reading your annual 'revoir' it was a pleasant surprise to come upon it. <br /><br />I think it is truly a gift that you have found a "nurturing and supportive environment" and I hope that everyone whose 'spiritual habitat' is being disturbed by a determined few in CoE will be similarly revived this time next year. <br /><br />I read and pondered over your comment regarding 're-ordination' and the Ordinariates. You may have noticed it also from looking across the blogs but I feel that there is a sense of 'talking-past' one another on this topic, RC's 'reducing' its significance while Anglican contributors feeling as if 'THE' point has been completely missed.<br /><br />I find my own viewpoint difficult to express - the best description I have come across of the issue is in the words of a commentator I link below -the crossover between 'objective validity, which only God can know, with recognized validity which is all the Church can offer.' The key point being that a sacrament cannot be objectively conferred twice and to attempt to do so is indeed gravely sinful. The question - is this what is being intended by the parties involved?<br /><br />I trust that the other issues you have raised for discussion are for other contributors to consider.<br /><br />I hope you have a peaceful new year, JT.<br /><br />Link: http://www.theanglocatholic.com/2011/12/the-only-faithful-response/ further thought-provoking comments by Michael de Verteuil - I imagine you may have already come across this in your web-travels!Jakian Thomisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13173059707881271764noreply@blogger.com