tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20318294.post7021291416213013254..comments2023-10-28T06:49:17.434+00:00Comments on O cuniculi! Ubi lexicon Latinum posui?: Desertion, desolation and deprivationWarwickensishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01310450226153796760noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20318294.post-3505014605435794662010-07-30T01:40:45.416+00:002010-07-30T01:40:45.416+00:00You read me right, Jonathan,
It's the overall ...You read me right, Jonathan,<br />It's the overall attitude of fault-finding that dismays me. It dismays me when I myself fall into it, as I admit to doing. What I mean by sniping is the attitude of seeking for reasons to disapprove of others instead of searching for ways to love one another. We so easily see the faults in others and so easily forget to notice the faults we ourselves have, and that is sad indeed. The main burden of what I said is that we need to be plugging the leaks, whereas many of our actions (even if well-intended) serve to make them worse rather than better.<br /><br />edpoetreaderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11613032927883843078noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20318294.post-89090952944907955592010-07-29T09:07:14.872+00:002010-07-29T09:07:14.872+00:00Having said that, there are many English Anglo-Cat...Having said that, there are many English Anglo-Catholics who are not Papalist. Are they even aware of the Anglican Catholic Church? <br /><br />If they aren't happening already, then there really ought to be some discussion between FiF and the ACC so that all Anglo-Catholics in the CofE can find a spiritually fulfilling home.Warwickensishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01310450226153796760noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20318294.post-64735137089153497032010-07-29T08:53:46.436+00:002010-07-29T08:53:46.436+00:00Fr. Jerome, I don't think Ed was suggesting th...Fr. Jerome, I don't think Ed was suggesting that Father Deacon Gould was actually sniping, but rather stating that sniping exists between Continuum members. As I've seen that for myself many a time, I do understand.<br /><br />Fr Gould, thank you very much for your kind concern which does raise my spirits in a rather dark time. I'm very well aware of Bishop Mead whom I have met once or twice. In my work at the Anglican Diaspora, I like to think I have a basic understanding of Anglican Alphabet Soup. <br /><br />I don't know whether "disenfranchised" Anglo-Catholics in the C of E are even aware of the Continuum. Many (and I'm given to think that it's the majority) English Anglo-Catholics are Anglican Papalist which the Anglican Catholic Church has not been seen to tolerate (as evidenced by the Continuum blog), and this does put a bit of a wedge for me in thinking about developing a deeper relationship with the ACC. Nonetheless, they will always have my respect, admiration and genuine affection.Warwickensishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01310450226153796760noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20318294.post-27220927861966747322010-07-28T22:29:18.712+00:002010-07-28T22:29:18.712+00:00Not sure, ed, who Dcn Gould was "sniping"...Not sure, ed, who Dcn Gould was "sniping" at...?<br /><br />The problem with the "doctrine of taint" is that one might fall into the ever-decreasing circles of "Apostolicae Curae" rather than the perhaps more level-headed "Saepius Officio"...Canon Jerome Lloyd OSJVhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10764146635659770019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20318294.post-12312152983570766722010-07-25T10:33:01.120+00:002010-07-25T10:33:01.120+00:00I'm extremely uncomfortable with the doctrine ...I'm extremely uncomfortable with the doctrine of taint (as you rather felicitously named it) espoused by so many in ACC, very largely because of the legalistic picture it seems to present of God and His economy. Mr. Jackson has expressed it rather well.<br /><br />I'd also like to remind Dcn. Gould of the serious schism from ACC somewhat later than the Deerfield thing that resulted in two groups known as Holy Catholic Church, Anglican Rite and Holy Catholic Church, Western Rite, whose connection with each other is rather tenuous. Unfortunately ACC has proven to be no less susceptible to these fractious forces than the rest of us. We're all in the same boat, and the boat has serious leaks we all need to be plugging, instead of finding reasons to snipe at each other.<br /><br />ed pachtpoetreaderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11613032927883843078noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20318294.post-27864615918897929462010-07-25T00:08:43.686+00:002010-07-25T00:08:43.686+00:00"Would that therefore mean that any baptism t..."Would that therefore mean that any baptism that the priest performs on a baby is therefore invalid?"<br /><br />I wouldn't have thought so. If I attempt to teach a bell (which, to the best of our understanding, is incapable of understanding pure mathematics) about linear algebra, then obviously that teaching is useless, ineffectual and quite null - no matter what I may claim to the contrary.<br /><br />That delusion (or possibly deception) doesn't affect any preceding or subsequent attempts I may make to teach the same material to, say, a first-year mathematics undergraduate.<br /><br />The teaching will work for those entities (say, first-year mathematics students) which are capable of being taught about linear algebra, and not for those entities (bells, for example) which are not capable of being taught.<br /><br />Analogously, I find it difficult to believe that any but the most contrary and pedantic god would refuse to acknowledge the baptism of a faithful person which just happened to be performed by a priest who was mistaken about certain details of theology. As with the teaching of linear algebra, I would expect the baptism to be effective for those entities capable of being baptised, and not for those which aren't.<br /><br />Consequently, I'm unconvinced by the "doctrine of taint" that you outline above. Surely any reasonable God would, therefore, accept as valid ordinations of male priests by a male bishop who has also ordained female priests? Whether or not the bishop is mistaken in certain points of theology relating to the ordination of women, he'd presumably be on more solid ground when ordaining a man to the priesthood, I'd have thought.Nicholas Jacksonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15775255162195697218noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20318294.post-60260138650774191112010-07-24T21:42:29.038+00:002010-07-24T21:42:29.038+00:00In regard to post-ordination of women Anglican ord...In regard to post-ordination of women Anglican ordinations, I believe that the flawed intent substantially taints them. To believe in the ordination of women is heresy. To ordain women is to effectively schism from the Catholic and Apostolic Church even if the vestiges remain such as bricks and mortar cathedrals, organisational structure etc.<br /><br />Anyone ordained post-ordination of women into a Canterbury Communion church should be re-ordained sub-conditione. Blogger Fr. Matthew Kirby on Continuum would be worth writing to, as he is a noted canonist.Deacon Down Underhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14903366446394957630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20318294.post-41483239562110099742010-07-24T21:39:37.577+00:002010-07-24T21:39:37.577+00:00The desert experience, of having everything stripp...The desert experience, of having everything stripped away has happened to Christians before. Anglo-Catholics are perhaps in the situation in some ways faced by Orthodox Christians in Russia in the 1920's when the Bolshevik regime was persecuting the Russian Church and set up the "Living Church" movement designed to radically modernise the Orthodox Church. Set up with compliant bishops and priests it was a failure and fizzled out. Truly orthodox orthodox spurned the heresy and innovation.<br /><br />As an Anglo0Catholic who has come back to Anglicanism vis the Continuum, I can only speak of the Anglican Catholic Church. It has a meaningful worldwide presence, albeit very small in my own country. It has great missionary success in Africa and India, Central and south America and Haiti. It has real clarity about faith and order, and it has not been riven with schism except for the departure of a couple of bishops in 1991 - the deerfield Beach schism that led to Archbishop Hepworth's TAC/ACA.<br /><br />I would urge you to prayerfully look at the ACC, visit with any parish, write to our Metropolitan, Archbishop Mark (Haverland). Read the Trinitarian newspaper, get some sense of us, and above all pray, fast and seek the Lord's will.<br /><br />In Christ<br /><br />Fr. Dcn. David Gould<br />Annunciation of Our Lady ACC Mission<br />Tasmania<br />www.accdanz.org<br />www.anglicancatholichobart.websyte.com.au<br />www.accaus.blogspot.comDeacon Down Underhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14903366446394957630noreply@blogger.com