tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20318294.post3324463936696392761..comments2023-10-28T06:49:17.434+00:00Comments on O cuniculi! Ubi lexicon Latinum posui?: Schism and ContinuumWarwickensishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01310450226153796760noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20318294.post-37059953484368079672014-04-13T11:18:42.286+00:002014-04-13T11:18:42.286+00:00Reader James brings up some excellent points. Howe...Reader James brings up some excellent points. However, at the same time as occasional acts of intercommunion were taking place after 1054, even up to the 17th Century, other words and deeds by both sides spoke the language of schism during this very same period. E.g., ongoing excision of the Pope from the relevant liturgical intercessions across the East, anti-Eastern polemics by official RC apologists like Aquinas, Councils confessedly called to achieve reunion.<br /><br />Therefore, unity was visibly broken, but not annihilated entirely. Which pretty much supports the applied ecclesiology of Anglican Catholicism, which affirms the Catholic dogma that the Church is visible and one, but denies the common opinion that the unity is always perfectly and manifestly visible. In other words, to paraphrase Bp K. Ware (I think), we can know where the Church is, but not always where it isn't!<br /><br />However, there is in fact an abundance of evidence for this in the ancient and mediaeval Church, as I discussed here: http://anglicancontinuum.blogspot.com.au/2006/01/catholic-ecumenism-and-elephant-in.html<br /><br />Personally, call me "old school", but I am quite happy for a continuation of using the words schism and heresy. Good enough for the Fathers, good enough for me. Mainstream Anglicanism has become schismatic and heretical for the most part. There, I said it. :-)Fr Matthew Kirbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14386951752314314095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20318294.post-54577864756513711982014-04-08T06:30:52.074+00:002014-04-08T06:30:52.074+00:00Thank you Reader James. In my attempt to be reason...Thank you Reader James. In my attempt to be reasonably brief I had missed those details you mention.<br /><br />The disunity within Anglicanism is indeed a big problem for all of us. We in the ACC try to be clear about what we mean, and often we get criticised (sometimes vehemently) for it by those of other Anglican stripes who do not like our attempts at dogmatics.<br /><br />However, we do what we can and try to be true to our convictions. It will all end one day in the glorious return of Our Lord who will put us all right. I am convinced of that through the very creed that unites Roman, Eastern and Anglican Catholic Churches.Warwickensishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01310450226153796760noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20318294.post-59173379262643582282014-04-08T02:21:12.626+00:002014-04-08T02:21:12.626+00:00'Yet, we have another situation in that the Ea...'Yet, we have another situation in that the Eastern Church and the Roman Church excommunicated each other in the great schism of the eleventh century. Now, is this a schism within the Church, or is it a schism from the church? The Anglican would say that it is schism within the Church, yet East and West would declare that it is schism from the Church.'<br /><br />Father, one has to be careful here since the excommunications were personal, directed at specific people at that time(the Patriarch of Constantinople and the Pope) yet there were places where intercommunion survived for many years. Incidentally,these excommunications were lifted a number of years ago. The truth is that the RC Church added doctrines to the original 'deposit of faith' which the Orthodox have never accepted. So they moved on, and we get closer together spiritually and yet further apart dogmatically.<br /><br />Not sure where this will end, maybe just agree to disagree, but what we both (RC and Orth)as the intrinsic 'disunity' within Anglicanism poses a big problem.<br /><br />James Morgan (EO in North America)Auriel Ragmonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08395216240172741261noreply@blogger.com